Puppets, Whiskey, and Olivia de Havilland

There are some people who enter your personal universe and orbit endlessly, occasionally entering your atmosphere, sometimes hidden in the shadow of your dark moon (ooh!), and at other times hurtling toward your celestial body like a flaming asteroid. Such a satellite is filmmaker/actor/writer/maven Alan Rowe Kelly.

Our paths having crossed several times (the first being the Fearless Tales Film Festival in San Fran), it was simply heavenly to finally get a chance to sit down one-on-one and pick the brain of one of the horror community's fastest-moving stars. Boisterous, outspoken, and simply impossible to forget, this is one bitch to watch out for -- and I was fortunate enough to share a few hours, some laughs, and a pile of losing Bingo cards with this talented and hard-working horror nut.

As I generally have to interview people via email, it was a real treat to get to actually discuss the down-and-dirty with a fellow film fan; besides that, I haven't been this drunk since the time I hugged Doug Wilson from Trading Spaces at a piano bar (sadly, it's true).

Read on for the juicy bits...

Lovely. Charming. Will cut you with the blade under his tongue.
(Alan Rowe Kelly)

The Interview
So let's talk about horror and humor. How do you balance the two?

You just have no idea what's going to make someone jump, or someone yawn, or someone laugh - when we were making I'll Bury You Tomorrow we had no idea we were making such a dark camp comedy until we were putting it together in the editing room. We had everyone play it as straight as possible, you know - real "acting", and suddenly we've got these gems in the editing room and we're like, "my god, that's SO FUNNY!"

You know, you really can't tip into camp intentionally - it's just not funny.

Right. You really miss the boat. There are movies that have done that, and intentionally gone for the camp comedy on purpose, and it just doesn't work. We were really careful not to do that. I gave all the actors movies to watch, just a few minutes, to help them work on their characters.

Ooh! What'd you tell them to watch?

Like I told Zoe to watch Carrie - take a look at Carrie or, you know - something along those lines with abused women. For me, I watched Double Indemnity and those kooky old Barbara Stanwick movies, those old film noirs, because I knew I wanted to underplay and overact at the same time. Some of the characters I wanted to have different genre backgrounds and different ways of acting, and other people I just had play themselves to be more real because I wanted their characters to be more grounded. But the other characters, I let them have fun with it.

I did notice that the movie has a core of normals surrounded by completely off-the-hook loonies.

And I'll do it again, and again, and again - in every movie. I decided it's my formula. Although in the next one I may not even have a group -- maybe just one normal person.

It doesn't end well for anyone in this one.

In typical horror movies it does end well for someone. You know, there's the kiss in the sunset, or the "oh, she made it out alive", and I just thought -- that's so boring. I am so bored with that. Kill everyone now!

If everyone gets it -- both the freaks and the normals -- what says that about how you see the world?

Oh, that's just how I tell a genre story. That's not how I feel.

Do you feel normalcy is a handicap?

Well, the one thing I never wanted to be is a part of the crowd, just like everyone else. You see it everywhere, too -- every population, even the gay population, falls into groups. You've got the Chelsea boys, the Village boys, the leather boys. You're pressured to fit into a type and people come up to you and say, "now what are you?" And I'm like, "I. Don't. Know. I mean, I know I'm not you, and I'm not you, and I'm not her, and I'd like to be that," and so - I think it's really important to have the freedom to get away from that stigma. Although I know I'm gonna get that from now on anyway -- one look that I'm stereotyped as, and I'm ready for that.

How so? From whom?

From everyone. I'm sure people will see my films and label me as a cross-dresser, a drag queen, or something like that. As long as you're watching the movies and the check is in the mail, you can call me whatever you want. I've got a hard shell and I'm a hard worker, so I can't be bothered.

(At this point the Xth Avenue Lounge's adorable bartender, Joe, makes the mistake of pouring me a second Manhattan. Yes, kids -- Cosmos are for sissies.)

(belching) So what's your working model?

I want to take my time with the next few projects - I'm not looking to rush out of the gate and put out a crappy second film. I'd rather spend two years on a film and do a few over the next ten years than pump out a few films a year that really aren't that good.

The Full Moon business model.

Hey - I think they have a great production company. They're like the B studios of the 40s and 50s, and I think that's great. They're like AIP - they're putting out a constant flow of genre film and people eat that up and I think it's great. But for me myself I'd rather take a year to make a film and post it, and then a year to promote it and start work on my next one. If I had a career of five good films I'd be thrilled.

With IBYT I did the serial killer thing, Unhallowed Ground is more supernatural: witchcraft, evil, toys, nursery rhyme thing. You know, kids crying in the background and puppets and mannequins and clowns and a haunted hotel and witches and covens and a blood cult. You know, it's gonna be a lot of fun and something that's never been done before. And it's funny - I wrote IBYT in 2 months but it took me a year and a half to finish Unhallowed Ground.

Why?

I have no idea. Keeping it original. I'd write scenes and read them and say, "I've seen this before." with IBYT, there are scenes that are obviously references to other movies, and that was intentional. But with this film I don't want anything in there to have ever been seen before.

What's the hardest part of filmmaking?

The worst part in the world is 'give me your money'. God, I hate that. It was easier the first time because it was my money, and money of someone who is a friend of mine. But now I'm asking for REAL money, you know. But I always make good on a deal. You better believe if someone has the faith in me to give me money to make a film I'm going to be counting every damn penny. I'm gonna have my hands in everything - I can't help it. Anal retentive Capricorn. I have eyes in the back of my head - I have to know what everyone's doing and I'll have my hands in all of it. Not that I'm a tyrant on set - that certainly doesn't get you anywhere. There's no reason to bring tension on to your set and into your film - that's no way to work.

There are other ways to motivate people.

Hell yeah - make people happy! Give them what they want!

Buy them ice cream!

Hell - if that's what it takes to get the job done. You know? What do you want from me? Tell me what you need to get this done and I'll get it. Are you vegetarian? Do you need special food on set? I'll get it. These are very simple things to take care of. Loosen up, filmmakers! Loosen the fuck up a little bit!

I'm so impressed by your PR.

I'm a loudmouth.

You're very... (swooning)... "present".

Hey - nobody's gonna open your mouth for you. That's an amazing thing that happened to me - I don't know where it came from. I won two film festivals and all of a sudden, it was. Being a writer helped because I'm able to put things into words on the spot, instead of a mish-mosh of turdthoughts.

Turdthoughts?

(laughs) If you're not gonna believe your shit, they're not gonna believe your shit - and it's as simple as that. It's not being stuck up or anything, it's just, who else is gonna do it for you? No one. In this business - and I will say that the horror business is not always like this - but in the film business a lot of people are so jaded that they're just waiting for you to fail. At least in the horror industry, which I love and which I feel so accepted by, they wanna see you keep going. I went to Horrorfind Weekend in Maryland and I met all these great B horror people - and when I say B, that's a good thing. And it was such a pleasure to meet them, although it was such a creepy thing at first to meet all these amazing people that I've admired for years, but they were all wonderful, just wonderful. They were all so supportive, and I can't say that I know the mainstream's like that.

How did you find Zoe (Daleman Chlanda, the star of IBYT)?

I was working a photo shoot - I was called in to do a model's headshot.

And it was Zoe?

She was the model. I was halfway through the script at the time, and I was doing makeup for this girl and she said she was an actress, and she was just so intelligent. The woman is beautiful but she's amazingly intelligent, and it's funny - she thinks like a man. She doesn't take any bullcrap from anyone. And by the end of the day I knew I had my Dolores. My partner told me I should audition other girls, and I said, no, it's done - this is who I'm writing for. Some of the other actors I had known for years in the business, and the roles I did audition for I put an ad in Backstage and had a one-day audition at a friend's studio down on Broadway, and it was done just like that - I mean, you walk in and give them these quirky roles, and they just fall in. You know you can do a little this or that with makeup or props, but it really all fell into place.

Speaking of casting, you were aggressive in getting your role in Dead Serious, right?

I called them up and said "what part do you have for me?" (Laughs) No, I actually learned about the film from one of your pieces.

I smell a plug…

No, I read about Dead Serious on CampBlood.org, and I said "Wow!" And then Michael Hein sent me an email about something entirely different, for screenwriters, and I said hey - you got a part for me? And he said "You need to talk to Joe, the director - here's his phone number."

Joe Sullivan - such a sweetheart.

He's wonderful. And he's thrilled with the way the film is coming together, they all are. It's very exciting. Those guys know about hard work, and they know if you're going to work hard, you don't stress yourself into a heart attack over nothing, you stress yourself over something you love doing, and they love film. I love other filmmakers - and I have no problem promoting their work, because I've got nothing to be afraid of. They're not gonna do what I do, and I'm not gonna do what they do.

There's plenty of room for everyone in this strange little genre.

Exactly. I remember when I was sending my script out, some people would say to me, "you're sending your script? Are you crazy?" And I said, look - even if they steal it outright from me, they're not gonna do it the same way I am. It wouldn't be the same movie anyway. I don't know - maybe I'm just getting older and more relaxed, but that sort of thing just doesn't bother me anymore.

I think you're also in a community that's very supportive.

As big as it is, it's a small group, so no one's going to go around fucking over each other. The last thing you want to do piss somebody off. If you want to fuck with people, go out to Hollywood - there' plenty of room for that kind of thing out there. You know?

(As we talk turkey the lights dim and a puppet -- the twisted work of puppeteer Joe, the bartender at the Xth Avenue Lounge -- rises from behind a wall to begin sipping martinis and calling Bingo to the unsuspecting patrons of the club. It's just fucked up enough to get us to stop yapping for 10 minutes.)

What do you watch?

Horror movies.

What kind?

Anything.

What's the last one you saw?

I've been buying so many - I just saw a great Mario Bava film that I loved as a child called Kill, Baby, Kill!, a demented child killer thing, which is not so inspiring, but the camerawork was amazing - I remember seeing it on TV when I was like 4, when it was called Operation Fear, or something. And I just can't get enough of those old monster pictures. White Pongo - a white gorilla in a cheap serial. The Amazing Transparent Man, all that stuff - so bad it's good.

What makes a good horror film go bad?

Formula. Not taking risks. That's the mistake. Worrying about demographics and what's PC and not risk-taking. They also forget it's supposed to be fun - like a rollercoaster ride, or a funhouse, and give you that thrill. The minute they sell you that ticket, and put you in that seat and you go through those doors, and you hear the sirens go off and the laughing and the screaming - that's what it has to be like. Some people take it a little too seriously - the joy of it is lost. William Castle's movies - as campy and kooky as they are today, back then they still scared the daylights out of people. House on Haunted Hill is one of my favorites because of its sheer inventiveness - funhouse stuff. And the risk factor: "we can't do that, it'll never get printed". Bullshit. What's wrong with an NC-17 rating for a horror movie? You can bet that if a horror film has an NC-17 rating, that's the film that I wanna see. It's forbidden fruit.

A lot of indie filmmakers who get picked up by studios lose their opportunity to take risks once they get more movies. Do you think it's possible to make risky movies in the studio system?

No, I don't - look what's coming out. Five minutes into the movie I know what's going to happen because I saw it 5 years ago, or I saw it 15 years ago, or hell - I saw it 45 years ago, only now it's got everyone from Channel 9 starring in it. And the whole T&A factor being used to sell a film just doesn't do anything for me. Now put in a little D&A, and maybe I'll have some questions. I mean, I understand that horror films can be very sexual, and there are certain ways to bring that about -- it has to have a certain bend to it. But I don't know -- I'm not going to be the kind of filmmaker who makes movies with a lot of T&A, a lot of blood and gore, and a great Rock Soundtrack -- I'm just not at the age where I want to do that. I want horror movies for adults. Back when I was growing up in the seventies and I used to sneak out my basement window to go see horror films that were R and X-rated at the time, I knew that I was going to see something that was for adults, because it had adult actors in them, and adult acting. I don't want to do anything that's trendy or in the popular language of the day -- I want my movies always to look like they've been lost from another decade somewhere.

How do you feel about kids seeing your movie?

That's funny you ask, because at the Horrorfind convention 13-year old kids were coming up to me and asking to buy my movie, and I had to say "I'm sorry, you need to be 17 to buy this." I did. I believe in the ratings system, and I believe that there are things that a kid off the street shouldn't see -- I mean, my film has incest and molestation and rape and murder and all sorts of disturbing things in it, and while seeing somebody kill someone and then have sex with them and then splatter them across the room would certainly have gotten me off when I was a kid, it's really not meant for them. And it's interesting, because it's people 24 and over who have been responding the best to my movie, and I think it's because they're able to sit back and enjoy the drama of the first half, and really get interested in these characters' lives, and then have fun when all hell breaks loose --

Uh-huh...

Whereas a 19-year-old might get antsy at the beginning and think it's boring. And I accept that, but I'm at the point where I want to tell a story like that. I want to pull you into a slow trance and then let it go. You know? I mean, Steven Barton from the Horror Channel saw the film, and he really liked it. And what he said to me was, "You know, after I watched your movie I just felt dirty.". And I took that as the greatest compliment.

The kids who really really want to see this stuff are going to find a way. Nothing will stop them.

That's right -- and eventually they're the ones who will end up in the business. It's like a drug -- that thrill of being scared and screaming out loud to myself in my living room at 4:00 in the morning is like a drug to me. I wasn't allowed to watch Dark Shadows when I was a kid for that very reason -- my mother couldn't figure out why I was in the basement by myself shrieking.

At Dark Shadows.

Oh my god yes, and all those Curtis Harrington movies... like Fear No Evil, and those old Barbara Stanwick movies...

The House that Would Not Die...

Was is Fear No Evil, or See No Evil? And Crowhaven Farm and Don't Be Afraid of the Dark with Kim Darby, and there were so many more...

The ones with Valerie Harper?

Wasn't she a rape victim in one?

I didn't see that one...

And there were was the one with Shelley Winters and Kay Lenz, the Carrie ripoff about the sorority house...

The Initiation of Sarah?

That's it! And of course there was Scream Pretty Peggy with Bette Davis, which was really awful... I just loved those, and there were so many of them... they're so harmless if you watch them now, but they had this thing -- this look that gave them this whole seventies exploitation look, like those Jack Hill films...

Have you seen The Baby?

(gasps) Ruth Roman is my favorite. If she would have just smoked three more packs of cigarettes a day, I'd have been happy. I loved her when she was young, I loved her later stuff. But I've never seen The Baby...

It blew my mind.

I'm looking for Dear Dead Delilah, an axe-hacking film -- it's fabulous. But I have over three thousand VHS tapes at this point, so I'm trying to cut down.

How do you think seeing all these horror movies as a kid affected you?

It twisted the fuck out of me. No, really -- I think it's just like growing up a rock'n'roll freak, or an Elvis movie freak, or a Marx Brothers fan.

(At this point we devolve into a fanboy fag-off about Ann-Margaret, Elizabeth Scott, and Olivia deHavilland that culminates with ARK quoting the classic The Swarm: "a swarm a' KILLABEES is comin' this way!")

One more thing, before the Bingo Hag returns: If you could give one piece of advice to other aspiring filmmakers out there, what would it be?

Do it. Period. Everyone's gonna tell you "no", but if you know it's true in your heart, you'll prove them wrong every time. You'll find the money, you'll find the chutzpah, you'll find the drive, you'll find the people to be behind you. This is something that I've dreamt of my whole life, and the fact that I was able to accomplish it and make my film, and now to potentially be able to do it again, that's a gift -- an absolute gift. It's not that I even deserve it -- it really is a gift and it was my time. You know, goals and dreams are hard to come by, if you've got one, you're so goddamn lucky -- but you've got to act on it to have a happy life. But you've gotta make it happen -- open your mouth. That's my advice -- open your goddamn mouth, girl -- because no one else is gonna open it for you.

I'll Bury You Tomorrow -- After I Sleep Off these Manhattans
As a filmmaker, a homo, and a film fanatic, sitting down to chat with Alan Rowe Kelly was as refreshing as biting into a big York Peppermint Patty. This guy is smart, driven, and most importantly, kind -- a combination that, along with goods-delivering projects like I'll Bury You Tomorrow and the upcoming Dead Serious, Opening the Mind, and Unhallowed Ground, will surely cement Kelly's position in the horror underground as one to watch and one to know.

Huge whiskey-vapored wet kisses to Alan for the Bingo, drinks, and dish (I'll sit around and talk trashy movies any day of the week -- write that down, kids. Oh, and I prefer Maker's to Wild Turkey), and best of luck to him and his spirited cast and crew as they continue to market IBYT and move on to other projects. You freaks are always welcome here at CampBlood.org!

Fore more info on the film, check out the official site. For more about Alan, check out his website.